So Has AVN Made A Statement Yet?

[lisa]

Hi Everyone;
I could not believe this thread when I found and read it. I would like to at this time take the opportunity to share with you all our thoughts and feelings regarding all of this.

As most of you know Badpuppy has attended and sponsored in some capacity, every Internext but one since its inception. We have also sponsored every Phoenix Forum, except one since its inception. We chose to be a Presenting Sponsor for their first Gay Phoenix Forum last year and our experience was phenomenal.

A different location may have been preferred, as we are all spoiled you know! That however was not why we were there! We were there to take advantage of doing business, whether expanding current relationships, or creating new business relationships at an event that was the first of its kind to bring together the Gay industry in one place, at one time. In our eyes and our experience, CCBILL did a top notch job and we were thrilled with the outcome. As far as the hotel, had CCBILL had any idea that the event was to be so popular and attendance almost double than they planned, I'm certain a different venue would have been selected. It's hit or miss sometimes with a first time event.

I'd also like to say that our experience with all of the Internext shows by AVN have also been phenomenal experiences, including the most recent GayVN show in San Francisco. It too was a very well done show and we could not have been more thrilled with that outcome.

We were planning on sponsoring this years Gay Phoenix Forum, had it not been canceled, as well as our sponsoring the GayVN Webmaster Retreat, after our experience in San Francisco. We are very sad that the Gay Phoenix Forum was canceled and if resumed next year, they will indeed have our support!

Our hopes are that next year maybe all parties can work together to put together the Gay show of shows and if they do, I'm sure we'll be involved and if they don't, we'll do our best to support both. If the Gay industry cannot work together as a whole, then we are going to be following the path of the Straight industry, that many of you who have posted know for fact we've discussed and all talked about and that is that it's a dog eat dog situation and their attitudes and actions cause division. We've boasted about how the Gay industry is so different and why we've all had such great success in working together as an industry, working hand in hand with our competition.

We love the folks at CCBILL, just as we love the folks at AVN and are proud of our relationships with them, as well as all of our friends and business associates in the Gay industry. Badpuppy will continue to support the Gay industry as a whole and not become separated for any political reasons that may or may not be there! I personally think that much of this is being over blown and fuels fires that need not burn.

With that said, we look forward to continuing the path we've followed for nearly 12 years and that is to working with and supporting the entire Gay industry and all of the businesses that make up this industry.

For those of you who will be in Phoenix next week, I will be there and look forward to seeing you and meeting any of you that I have not had the opportunity to meet. I'd also like to say that we'll be a part of the GayVN Retreat this fall and for those of you that I miss in Phoenix next week, I hope to see you in LA this fall. If CCBILL were to change its mind and resume plans for The Gay Phoenix Forum this year, we would be there to support them as well.

We are not about to get involved with any political division or hearsay that may or may not even exist. Our support lies with the Gay industry as a whole and will continue in that direction as long as Badpuppy is around and our plans are to be around for a long time to come.

[Dzinerbear]

I'm open to the idea there's an alternate explanation, and I think everyone posting in the thread is open to the idea of some meaningful action by the parties responsible to create the unity that everyone, except the 4 or 5 people that started posting in the last 24 hours, seems to want. CCBill is on record as saying that it wants to participate and support unity in the community, so no one can say they aren't coming to the table.

I guess from my point of view, I want to hear what the parties involved have to say. I won't necessarily believe them because, well, people lie all the time. It's called marketing and public relations. I don't ever expect AVN and/or Epoch to say, "You know what, we fucked up and we're awfully sorry ..." If they did I would fall off my chair, but they'd regain my respect.

But the fact that this forum is continually ignored by the parties involved (except for a couple of voices from Cybersocket and Ken from AVN) is (a) dismissive and (b) continues to add to the speculation.

If they want this issue to go away they really ought to come here and address us. Afterall, this is the biggest gay webmaster board on the Web. As much as some people hate to admit it, it's true. If you're gay and working in this business and you want to know what's going on, you have to come here. Even enraged people who have started other gay boards, still come here.

So this issue isn't going away and we can keep bumping this thread to the top of the forum until we get an answer.

And hey, last night when I went to bed it had 1701 views, this morning it has 1818 views, so people are still reading it.

Come on guys, do the right thing and address the community you say that you want to support.

Michael

[Lee]

CCBill is on record as saying that it wants to participate and support unity in the community, so no one can say they aren't coming to the table.

But people will be able to say (and have already started to do so) that about CCBill so long as that non-compete agreement for the AVN/Epoch/Cybersocket show remains in effect.

Im also pretty certain that is why it was put in place, given how verdantly Epoch seems to be marketing itself to the gay webmaster community as late.

Regards,

Lee

[Epoch Holly]

Not even for question #4 above Holly?

Why did it take a response in this thread from ME for you to come back and reply to it... Minutes after i posted?

Regards,

Lee

LOL, I guess cause we all listen and read what you say. I was actually out and came back to check the thread, I may disagree with most on this but I do enjoy and appreciate the discussion and the ability to have a forum where you can disagree!

[Epoch Holly]

Badpuppy will continue to support the Gay industry as a whole and not become separated for any political reasons that may or may not be there! I personally think that much of this is being over blown and fuels fires that need not burn.


We are not about to get involved with any political division or hearsay that may or may not even exist. Our support lies with the Gay industry as a whole and will continue in that direction as long as Badpuppy is around and our plans are to be around for a long time to come.

Very well Said My Friend! See you next week poolside!

[Lee]

LOL, I guess cause we all listen and read what you say.

Its just a shame that you dont feel the same way about the rest of the posters in this thread with the same questions that i have.

Yet again proving your little group of friends doesnt care what the gay webmaster community you want to 'unite' thinks... Until it suits your needs., it really is shamefull.

Regards,

Lee

[Epoch Holly]

Its just a shame that you dont feel the same way about the rest of the posters in this thread with the same questions that i have.

Yet again proving your little group of friends doesnt care what the gay webmaster community you want to 'unite' thinks... Until it suits your needs., it really is shamefull.

Regards,

Lee

Where have I said I don't care for the rest of the posters in this thread? I have no clue what you have against my "little group of friends" Lee but that we are not allowed to disagree with you or others without you saying we are just trying to suit our needs is shameful to me.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

LOL, I guess cause we all listen and read what you say. I was actually out and came back to check the thread, I may disagree with most on this but I do enjoy and appreciate the discussion and the ability to have a forum where you can disagree!

I appreciate your being here and sharing your thoughts.

At the end of the day, the gay webmaster community should have a show that caters exclusively to us and truly serves our best interests and provides attendees (and sponsors and organizers) the opportunity to develop their businesses and be successful.

If the GayVN Retreat turns out to be the best thing that's happened to the gay webmaster community in a long while I'm all for it. If it turns out to be a tremendously valuable resource and is both executed and received well, that's good for everyone.

However, it's my belief that it's starting off with a fair bit of ground to make up before it even "hits even", so to speak, because it has come about at the cost of the Gay Phoenix Forum. There were ways the GayVN Retreat could have been planned that left the community with more options and opportunities, but instead it's come about through eliminating rather that complimenting.

Indeed, I hope I'm wrong in my impression of it all. Because my impression involves the community having lost something very valuable.

[BananaMan]

For the record, I agree with everything Brian Dunlap has written on this thread. What AVN, Cybersocket & Epoch did is extremely obvious to even a casual industry observer.

Frankly I would like to see an annual conference for the gay adult industry that is not run by a for-profit corporation but is a true co-operative effort. One that has low or zero entrance costs and that is held in different cities each year.

Almost every industry except adult has an association that holds an annual conference. The conference location and agenda is controlled by the members of the association, not by the interests of a handful of companies with their own agendas and run for the benefit of the members, not to make money for one company.

Isn't it about time we had a Gay Adult Industry Association?

[Lee]

Frankly I would like to see an annual conference for the gay adult industry that is not run by a for-profit corporation but is a true co-operative effort. One that has low or zero entrance costs and that is held in different cities each year.

For the record, there are several companies discussing such an event right now, i mentioned it in another thread i think but it seems to have gotten lost somewhere along the way.

The only issue that this group is currently facing is costs of puttng the show on and securing companies willing to pay for attendees to actually attend, attendees are basically only going to have to pay for airfare everything else, rooms, food, entertainment, etc will be paid for by the sponsors.

Date wise nothing has been finalized yet but several dates have been mentioned including the end of September and the middle of October as there really doesnt seem to be a timeframe other than these dates to operate another gay show

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

Lets wait for Morgan, Karl, Ken and Holly to come back in force, hopefully with some answers to the as yet, unanswered questions many of us still want to hear about.

As I told you before, Lee, it's not my place to speak on behalf of my bosses. I do not make decisions regarding shows, so to do so would be wildly inappropriate of me. I'm just an associate editor, but I know that my bosses are good people, and I will reiterate that until I'm blue in the face.

Have you considered that the reason you're not getting the answers you want is, in fact, because of the environment of hostility that you are actively encouraging? Your questions are loaded with innuendo and presuppostion of guilt and "maliciousness," while others have since openly come out and said that they won't believe anything we say anyway. Wow. Talk about incentive for anyone to come on here and open a dialogue. You have fostered such an open environment of hostility that YOU yourself are to blame for anyone not coming onto your board of hatred and attempting to clear the air. The lack of tact on display in this thread is positively unprecedented!

My statements in this thread were not, as you and Chip have implied, intended to distract from the issue at hand, but since I cannot speak to that, I chose to offer my own comments about what I see to be a very important issue at hand, which is the way you use this board as a bitter, hateful and spiteful means to an end. Many of us are well aware of the issues you have with one or two of the companies you are attacking in this thread. No matter what you say in response to this, anyone with half a brain will be able to see that you are using this thread as a way to lash out at the companies you have PERSONAL beef with.

This is not my battle to fight, so I really need to step out of this and just let it go. I just hate to see people that I know to be genuinely good get raked over the coals by a someone with his OWN agenda to push.

[gaybucks_chip]

I agree that it would take a brave soul to come in here and face the heat and discuss the matter. But that would not have been the case if there hadn't been stony silence on the issue for weeks. And at this point, stony silence (Morgan's less-than-credible explanation notwithstanding) is just going to continue to make matters worse.

Ultimately, the companies that are in the "hot seat" can come and either own up to what's been alleged, or if there's a different explanation, offer that up. But any alternate explanation has to be credible, or it will get ripped to shreds. And silence won't work either, because the outrage among webmasters is spreading, and people that normally stay neutral are getting incensed and are starting to speak up. In my 7 years in the industry, I've never seen anything like it.

I don't speak for anyone else, but I am open to alternate explanations. Yes, it's possible there wasn't malevolent intent by scheduling the Summit directly opposite GPF. But at the moment, with the facts we currently have, there's no other reasonable explanation. If there is a credible alternative explanation, it's up to the parties that say they have the facts to provide them and let the community judge which of the differing explanations (CCBill's vs Cybersocket's) is the most credible.

Unity and cooperation is what matters. Everything else is just petty politics. When the principal parties involved realize that, and put aside their own interests in the name of the community as a whole, we'll get somewhere. Until then, this thread will keep getting views and comments, disgust among the webmasters reading will continue to develop, and the credibility of the people who remain silent on the issue will continue to be damaged.

I have offered to speak to anyone with any viewpoint on the subject matter, by phone, IM, or email, and I'm ready to change my opinion if there's credible evidence to support that notion. That offer remains open.

[wnc]

And silence won't work either, because the outrage among webmasters is spreading, and people that normally stay neutral are getting incensed and are starting to speak up. In my 7 years in the industry, I've never seen anything like it. there's credible evidence to

Well written, as usual.

Why is there a non-compete clause, keeping CCBILL out of the NEW planned show?

Quite frankly, I hope to never deal with Paycom/Epoch due to this, especially after pages of comments and no one answering that question, asked numerous times.

[Lee]

I just hate to see people that I know to be genuinely good get raked over the coals by a someone with his OWN agenda to push.

Yet i am not the only one asking for answers.

At least if i was the only person who was genuinely disgusted by the actions of Cybersocket, Epoch and AVN you could use that argument to distract people from the matter at hand, unfortunately, there is more than just me asking for answers so that whole standpoint is invalid Ken.

Why cant someone from Cybersocket, Epoch or AVN come in here and honestly address the concerns of the webmaster community they so adamantly claim to want to unite?

As Chip mentioned above, staying quiet is doing non of the 3 companies involved, Cybersocket, Epoch and AVN any good whatsoever, if anything it is damaging their credibility more and more by them not addressing the questions.

For a group of companies who constantly profess to wanting to unite the gay webmaster community, it looks more and more that our 'community' only matters to them when they stand to profit from us.

We have questions and we would like answers, until we get them, im pretty sure this topic of discussion isnt going anywhere, which is only going to greater damage the reputations of Cybersocket, Epoch and AVN by them continuing to ignore the gay webmaster community.

Unite us, tell the gay webmaster community you want to unite the answers to our questions.

I dont understand why these 3 companies are letting this fester so long, especially seeings as reps or owners from all 3 of them have been reading this thread every few hours since it was started, and we still dont have any answers.

Regards,

Lee

[Squirt]

As I told you before, Lee, it's not my place to speak on behalf of my bosses. ..... This is not my battle to fight, so I really need to step out of this and just let it go.

Wise decision

I just want you to know that I appreciate your posts and insight, on this subject, and many others you bring to the board.

Part of being a productive community is people from all viewpoints voicing their opinions, whether popular or not, and doing so without intimidation.