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He is pushing his views on his members and using his web site as a distribution tool. Leave people the f_ck alone, haven't we learned that by now?Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Stop pushing your left or right wing views on people and let them think and feel how they want.
If he was pushing right wing views on his site, I doubt you would be defending his view then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
Again, with all due respect... I don't see the big deal here.
He was simply offering his views to the members of his site, and yes, using his site as a distribution tool. But it's not like he said, "You MUST think this way" As I said, there is nothing different about that than the Dixie Chicks saying what they said at their concert. Is was their RIGHT to do so, just as it was Tropix's RIGHT to do so as well.
Regardless of which political agenda he was promoting, I would stand by my opinion on this matter. If I start a website, I have the right to say what I want on it. That's what Freedom of Speech is all about.
I'm shocked, Jacob, that you -- a porn producer who depends upon the protection you are afforded by the First Amendment -- do not understand that.
Whether you think there is a place for political opinion on a porn site is a matter of opinion, and I'm happy to disagree with you (and I do), but one of the responsibilities of living in a so-called "free countries" is to let others say and do as they please as long as it falls within the boundaries of the Constitution.
Honestly, there's no need to get so testy about something that, honestly, doesn't really affect your business. ;)
I think what you are actually trying to say was:Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
"HAHAHA! You hit it on the head! Maoism! :yeah:
(or even Eurocomunism, or perhaps Marxist-Stalinism.)
Communism is an ideology that seeks to establish a future classless, stateless social organization, based upon common ownership of the means of production.
But I am sure you knew that.
Also, by this token, shouldn't we also stop publishing op-eds in newspapers and Rolling Stone? Perhaps we should also eliminate all political commentary from TV news programs? And Bill Maher should definitely be shot or maimed for having the gumption to spout political rhetoric on his show Real Time.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
"Pushing [our] views on people"--as you put it--is the foundation upon which many of our most popular mediums are created.
We all "push our views on people" every day, in many ways. This very board, for instance, is a medium through which people "push their views" on each other.
Whether you think that sex and politics mix is your opinion. I maintain that porn sites are the perfect vehicle through which to encourage people to be politically active. Difference of opinion. But the law says each of us have the right to decide for ourselves what we want to include on our sites. There's really no room for disagreement there. ;)
I fully understand the first ammendment and this has nothing to do with that, it has to do with a thing called RESPECT. Thanks for being arrogant and assuming I don't understand the first ammendment because I disagree with you.
It's called having respect for others, mainly your paying customers. This seems disrespectful that he is forcing his views on people. Mainly when he forces his views on people but then he isn't receptive to accept other people that have a different view then his, wow that's progression!
Not everyone that is gay is a democrat and you need to accept and respect other peoples views and not shove your views upon them. Just as you wouldn't want the opposing teams views shoved upon you.
It's called being respectful, we should have learned that in elementary school. Politics is a personal thing anyway, it's rude to even ask people who they voted for or what their political views are. But I guess that has been lost over the years, I even know that and I am only 29.
You don't discuss politics or religion for this exact reason.
I was actually thinking more hypocrism!Quote:
Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
Aren't you using your site as a distribution tool to push your views? What if I don't like Twinks. Should I be free to stop you from publishing your views, pics, and comments on them?
Our content may be different...political, non-political, spanking, twinks, bears, otters, etc...but all of our sites do in some way represent ourselves.
rolling stone is a newspaper/magazine, and has always had articles regarding politics. you can generally see at least one listed on every cover, so it's not the same surprise to find them that it is when joining a porn site.
wrong reply window & no delete option.
Respect is sometimes loosely used as a synonym for politeness or manners, by those who do not know any better. However, respect is an attitude of acknowledging the feelings and interests of another party in a relationship, and of treating as consequential for the self the helping or harming of the other. At least thats what I learned in Kindergarten...but hey...I don't live in Florida where people still think Noah had an ark.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
(And yes, I acknowledge that last jab was not respectfull.)
You seem to missing my entire point. My statement on my site was an act of respect to my paying members. It shows that I respect them enough to not pretend I am something I am not. It shows them that if they pay a membership fee to me, then I will use it to support causes I believe in. It shoes them respect because now that they know, they can quit and give their money to a porn site that might support their right wing agenda (you know of any?) and not my left wing agenda.
So anyway...the whole reason I started the thread was because I was a little shocked that some many republicans with their "God Bless Traditional Values" were members of my quite subversive non-mainstream porn site.
Talk about hypocrisy?
(And in case you need it: Hypocrisy is the act of pretending or claiming to have beliefs, feelings, morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
Jacob, WHAT are you talking about? People freely debate politics every day in a variety of forums. There's nothing rude OR disrespectful about wanting to dicuss these things or wanting to bring them up.
Again, should we tell the columnists at Rolling Stone that they shouldn't express ANY political opinions out of respect for their readers--just because someone MIGHT disagree with it?
Opinions are MEANT to be shared, analyzed, deconstructed and reaffirmed.
By your statement, NOBODY would say ANYTHING to ANYONE. And then where would we be? Just a bunch of people running around keeping our opinions to ourselves? Where is the fun--or more importantly, where is the opportunity for societal growth, evolution and change--in THAT?
Wow! You can read a dictionary! Put that thing down you are burning a hole in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios
[QUOTE=By your statement, NOBODY would say ANYTHING to ANYONE. And then where would we be? Just a bunch of people running around keeping our opinions to ourselves? Where is the fun--or more importantly, where is the opportunity for societal growth, evolution and change--in THAT?[/QUOTE]
Where would we be? Right where we are now, fighting about politics and getting no where! Ask his clients that all departed, where are they now? Wow that really achieved something, he obviously just pissed off a bunch of them and they showed it by not supporting his site and leaving. Which totally backs up my statement that you are asking about.
I know what you're saying, Patti, but it should also be noted many people would say--and do say--there's no room in a music magazine for politics as well. Some people get pissed off when Madonna says something remotely against Bush at her concerts. They also get pissed off when celebrities say things at the Oscar awards.Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
The truth is, voting is one of the most important issues facing American citizens today, and politics have taken over our society. Obviously, many of us feel that it's perfectly within our own acceptable standards to use whatever medium is available to us to state our opinions regarding this issue.
It's an age-old debate that is never going to end. People will never meet in the middle on this. You're either for speaking out in any context or you're not. End of story. :)
NOW who's being disrespectful? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
Jacob,
Sounds like you need a spanking.
:whip:
Hey I am open minded, sounds good to me! Woof!:donmike:Quote:
Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios
Well, that's a pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
Where are those clients now? They're probably on sites that don't include political statements on them. And as far as Tropix is concerned, his business is all the stronger for it.
We're all responsible for how we react to something we see or hear. Many people went out and burned their Dixie Chicks CDs when they spoke up. What did their statement accomplish, you ask? It accomplished debate, thought and the exchange of ideas just like the ones we are exchanging right now. True, they lost some fans and the country radio stations shunned them, but they have emerged a much stronger act as a result. More importantly, they CONTRIBUTED something, instead of just sitting back and staying quiet.
You see no point in debate. How sad. The sharing of ideas and opinions helps people to either reaffirm or re-examine their opinions and beliefs, and I'd say that's a VERY important step in raising consciousness on the part of American citizens, and in general growth. We're growing with each word we type.
THAT's what's been accomplished here. ;)
OMG. I am so done with this, I have wasted way too much time.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
A PORN site isn't the place for that, obviously, they come on to get away from everyday bullshit and life and pull up the porn site to jerk it, not to be brought back into everyday life, that's what the news is for.
I would have to agree a little. I spent too much time writing you back instead of working today!Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
I hope you took no offense to any of my statements, as none was ever intended.
We therefore must agree to disagree.
(Setting disctionary down...)
And anytime you are in town, let me know. Would be happy to spank you!
(I am sure my members would love to see that!)
:daddy:
Haha. No offense at all man. I am glad you had the balls to post about your experience and thanks for sharing. I respect your view and I will hold on to my view. I will definitely let you know when I am in town. I should have left 40 min ago to pick my friend up at the airport, oppps! ((hugs))Quote:
Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios
i don't see healthy debate here - what i see is a couple people ganging up on LiveTwinksCam with a strong conviction that what they think is 100% right and what he says is 100% wrong. period. i haven't read the part where you read something he said, considered it, and tried to see if there was something - even if it was a little tiny something - you could agree with.
if you can't listen and consider what a friendly fellow webmaster has to say if you don't agree with it at the gate, how do you expect republicans who didn't even consider you as a person to listen on a website?
tell ya what - when i open cnn, i expect to see politics so i read on. if i'm watching metalocolypse and they interupt it with politics, i leave. i'm not saying don't put politics in your site as it is YOUR site, but in my experience the only people who you want to affect will be the ones least likely to listen.
I couldn't agree with you more Basshick. Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Not looking to jump into the middle of anything and by posting a response I’m jumping in head first…
An adult site is the last place I would think to look for a political view thusly it’s the last place I would want to see one pushed. (This is MY personal view)
To assume the mass of your members whom terminated their experience with your site are Republican is an assumption if not a scapegoat to give actions a reason.
Myself, I would quit the site because I’m tired of political issues always in my face. At work, At home, in the news and on everyone’s tongue. Not because I’m a Republican or Black or female or transgender or left handed but simply because I need a break.
Point taken. But from all the hate mail I got from them before they quit...I think I am safe in saying 99.9% of them were Republicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolKnights
I too would not like to have political views pushed on me...but like I mentioned earlier, it was in my "Ramblings/Blog/Forum" and not like a full front page on my site. (That only said to VOTE....but not for whom.)
You obviously do not live in the south! Non-conservative folks put up with this kind of crap every time we leave our houses here. Religious conservatives are constantly trying to shove their shit down your throats.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTwinksCam
OH! And don't forget the confederate flags... a not-so-subtle way for rednecks to show their displeasure at the abolishment of slavery. How would you like to be a black man living in a southern state and having to look at confederate flags every day?
Florida may not be the south but it is the southern most point of the east coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Try being a Gay man who has to align their personal views with the rest of the community or suffer outcast and ridicule.Quote:
How would you like to be a black man living in a southern state and having to look at confederate flags every day?
one important thing missing from that sentence... the word "gay". I have no doubt that your average straight porn surfer has a huge variety of political beliefs. But Tropixxx is a male spanking site. Why would a member of that site be offended by liberal beliefs?!Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD
"Gay" and "Republican" should never even be in the same sentence... except this one. ;)
.
heh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
point and score!Quote:
Try being a Gay man who has to align their personal views with the rest of the community or suffer outcast and ridicule.
Oops, I wasn't aware that he was from Florida. Hmmm, maybe Florida isn't as bad as Texas. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolKnights
I don't feel a shred of sympathy for gay republicans... especially the closeted ones. You reap what you sow.Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolKnights
Xstr8guy so all republicans are the same?
Well congratulations, Tropixxx. Sounds like you did exactly what people complain FOX News does everyday - hang their politics on their sleeve, and tell people what to think.
I kinda understand your feelings, but you are skating on really thin ice.
Of course you can do what you want with your own buisness, but it is going to be perceived just like when New York City landlords advertised their apartment rental units with the little note "Gentiles Only"
Especially when you make statements like "I am GLAD those members are gone", cause there's nothing like a good ol' cleansing, eh?
I don't have the religious zeal to presume that my own views are inherently superior to others, or that my sermons are de facto truth which when embraced makes you a better person.
Perhaps that is what being a wacko Hollywood liberal is all about.
Respectfully,
Steve
Pretty much, yes. But that's just my $0.02Quote:
Originally Posted by jIgG
i was about to agree with most of what you just said when you had to get insulting - and even better, you insulted me. i despise the term liberal, but it is what most republicans i know have dubbed me and i live in hollywood.
anytime anyone tries to put a bunch of people into a single group. they better have some facts to back them up. there are lots of us here who are far from whacko, and what's more there are republicans here, too.
if you feel the need to attack, why not attack the person you are talking to instead of assigning him to a group and then attacking that group? that's like saying a guy is lazy 'cause he's black or is rich 'cause he's a jew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desslock
Yeah, one of my best friends is Republican. He's gay, he owns his own business and he thinks George W is an asshole too. He believes in some of the original values of what the Republican party stood for and has his own reasons. But he says that the religious wackos have tainted those ideals.
I still don't agree with a lot of his views but I respect him as a person and he is allowed to have his views. So equating him with the Bible thumping right wing maniacs that would like nothing more than to get rid of us is not really fair.
I wholeheartedly understand that some people hold the point of view that there is no place on a porn site for politics. But I disagree. Therefore, why should I find something in that opinion to agree with????????Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
By the way, if I was telling LiveTwinkCam he was wrong (which I don't feel I was), then he was doing exactly the same thing to me by sharing HIS opinion--which, by the way, I respect, but just simply disagree with, and will continue to disagree with as loudly as I want to. ;)
It's all good. I'm honestly just having a healthy debate. How you or anyone else perceives is just that: YOUR perception.
Sure, reward him for bad behavior!!! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios
Honestly, I think a lot of this has been healthy debate but there's also been some name calling and bashing, and that I don't approve of. Let's keep in mind that we don't all have to agree on everything, and it's okay to disagree with someone, but don't ever take the stance on "I'm right and you're wrong" because it's just not true.
Because someone doesn't agree with your way of thinking does not make them "stupid" and just because someone did something that you would not have done does not give you the right to say "you shouldn't have done that". You could say, "I don't agree with that and here are my reasons..." or "I wouldn't have done that, myself."
There is an excellent quote from the TV show Voyager...
I dread the day when everyone on this ship agrees with me.
- Kathryn Janeway, Captain, U.S.S. Voyager NNC 74656
This would be a poor sort of board if we all agreed on everything. How boring would that be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
So by your logic it must be true what some people say bareback porn is for bug chasers and people who get off on spreading AIDS. And pretty much gays are responsible for HIV since they get infected the most.
Actually, I think everyone just needs a good spanking!Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMike
:donmike:
No. I just don't like republicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by jIgG
And what the HELL does your inflammatory comment have to do with anything? I guess I hit a nerve. I never had you pegged as a republican lover.